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Debate with a Christian Bibi
								

The following incident took place about 4 - 5 years ago (in 2005) and I wrote it back then. It is presented again for the interest of Sangat here:

Most days I walk home from the train station. It is about 2 km walk to home and I look forward to it because I do my regular Siri Sukhmani Sahib while walking home.

One day as I was walking a lady unexpectedly patted on my shoulder while we crossed each other and smilingly remarked, “Good man”. I was somewhat confounded but continued doing my paath as I smiled back at her.

The next day again she met me on my way back home and this time she stopped and intimated something that I could not make out as it was hardly audible, but it was something about Bible. She had a dishevelled look and was wearing old albeit clean clothes. Around her neck she had a hand written poster that had the following note:

“This world is polluted. The pollutants are Homosexuality, Incest, Adultery, Fornication, Abuse, Murder, Cheating………..”

She asked me directly, without hesitating, “You look like a good man but are you free from these pollutants?”

I was taken aback by her sudden exclamation but replied calmly, “by the grace of God, I am”.

“But you know that you still must come to Jesus. You must open your heart to Jesus.”

“I think Jesus was a good man and I appreciate his good deeds and his sacrifice.”

“Appreciating is not enough. You must open your heart to him”, she persisted.

“But one heart can do only one love. My heart has already opened up for my Guru and has fallen in love with him. There is no chance in this life of loving anyone else”, I said using the analogy of Ghalib in one of his shayers, that one heart is good for only one love (Dil bhee yaa Rabb, kayee diye hotay).

“You must realise that unless you wash yourself with the blood of Jesus, you cannot be purified”, she said strongly.

Till now I was in no mood to engage in a religious debate with her but she forced me to have expostulations with her. I decided to go ahead and engage in a small debate with her. She was a bit agitated but I was calm, by Guru Sahib’s kirpa.

“I don’t understand how blood can purify anyone or anything”, I replied back.

“You see Jesus gave his blood for us. We must wash ourselves and our souls with his blood. Until we do that, we cannot get purified”.

“Tell me one thing ma’am. If you behold a person washing his clothes with blood, what would you think of him.”

“WHAT”, she cried.

“Okay, let me rephrase. If you witness a person, taking shower with blood, instead of water, what would you consider such person doing? Won’t you find him demonic and fiendish?”

She paused for a moment and seemed perplexed at the direction I was taking. She probably had never looked at this from this direction. A long pause ensued.

I continued, “Blood is blood, whether it is Jesus’ or someone else’s. Blood stains our clothes. Then how can it purify our hearts?”

“I told you before, that Jesus’ blood is different. It is special blood. Your Nanak cannot save you”, said she stuttering.

When she brought my Guru’s name on her tongue in a detestable manner, I got a bit upset but understood that she was a bit frustrated.

“Okay tell me one thing. Are you a spiritual being or a physical being? Are you this body or someone living in this body?”

“Well, we are body, soul and spirit. Actually, I am a spiritual being but I am also body”, she said while trying to figure out what to say.

“Make up your mind ma'am, whether you are a body or someone living in the body”, I told her.

“Well, I don’t know if I am body or soul or spirit. Perhaps I am all three”.

“Just as your body is wearing your clothes but your body is different from your clothes, same way you are wearing this body to be in this world but you are not your body. The fact that you say “My body”, proves that you are separate from you body. Just like your body changes clothes, you change your bodies. Bible talks about hell and heaven. Well, who suffers hell and who enjoys the bliss of heaven if your body is getting decomposed here in this world? This alone proves that you are not your body but an entity living in this body”

A long silence ensued my discourse. She was somewhat dumbfounded.

“I guess you are right. I am an entity living in this body as my entity but I don’t understand why I need my body to be here in this world”, she asked inquisitively.

“In order to stay and function in this enchanted world made of 5 basic elements, a body of 5 elements is required. Our astral body or our spiritual body cannot function in this world and same holds true vice-versa”.

“What vice-versa”, she asked.

“Vice-versa, meaning; our physical body cannot go to the next world because next world is out of this enchanted world made of 5 basic elements. So in the next world we carry our real body and stay in our real-self.”

“I see”, she said.

“Now think about it ma’am; how can blood of Jesus i.e. a physical thing of 5 basic elements clean your spiritual self or soul?”

She stayed quiet for quite bit. In the end she said, “I will have to think about this more deeply. I have never looked at spirituality from the angles you have pointed out today. I regularly go this way and I am sure to bump into you sometime soon. We will continue our discussion. At this time I don't know what to say. Thanks for your time and see you again.”

“See you and bye”.

I resumed my paath from the ashtpadi I had left before debating with her and reached home, thanking Vaheguru for being with me.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

PS: Isaayee means one who believes in Isa Maseeh i.e. Jesus Christ. Moosaayee is one who believes in Moses i.e a Jew.

 
 
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The following incident took place about 4 - 5 years ago (in 2005) and I wrote it back then. It is presented again for the interest of Sangat here:

Most days I walk home from the train station. It is about 2 km walk to home and I look forward to it because I do my regular Siri Sukhmani Sahib while walking home.

One day as I was walking a lady unexpectedly patted on my shoulder while we crossed each other and smilingly remarked, “Good man”. I was somewhat confounded but continued doing my paath as I smiled back at her.

The next day again she met me on my way back home and this time she stopped and intimated something that I could not make out as it was hardly audible, but it was something about Bible. She had a dishevelled look and was wearing old albeit clean clothes. Around her neck she had a hand written poster that had the following note:

“This world is polluted. The pollutants are Homosexuality, Incest, Adultery, Fornication, Abuse, Murder, Cheating………..”

She asked me directly, without hesitating, “You look like a good man but are you free from these pollutants?”

I was taken aback by her sudden exclamation but replied calmly, “by the grace of God, I am”.

“But you know that you still must come to Jesus. You must open your heart to Jesus.”

“I think Jesus was a good man and I appreciate his good deeds and his sacrifice.”

“Appreciating is not enough. You must open your heart to him”, she persisted.

“But one heart can do only one love. My heart has already opened up for my Guru and has fallen in love with him. There is no chance in this life of loving anyone else”, I said using the analogy of Ghalib in one of his shayers, that one heart is good for only one love (Dil bhee yaa Rabb, kayee diye hotay).

“You must realise that unless you wash yourself with the blood of Jesus, you cannot be purified”, she said strongly.

Till now I was in no mood to engage in a religious debate with her but she forced me to have expostulations with her. I decided to go ahead and engage in a small debate with her. She was a bit agitated but I was calm, by Guru Sahib’s kirpa.

“I don’t understand how blood can purify anyone or anything”, I replied back.

“You see Jesus gave his blood for us. We must wash ourselves and our souls with his blood. Until we do that, we cannot get purified”.

“Tell me one thing ma’am. If you behold a person washing his clothes with blood, what would you think of him.”

“WHAT”, she cried.

“Okay, let me rephrase. If you witness a person, taking shower with blood, instead of water, what would you consider such person doing? Won’t you find him demonic and fiendish?”

She paused for a moment and seemed perplexed at the direction I was taking. She probably had never looked at this from this direction. A long pause ensued.

I continued, “Blood is blood, whether it is Jesus’ or someone else’s. Blood stains our clothes. Then how can it purify our hearts?”

“I told you before, that Jesus’ blood is different. It is special blood. Your Nanak cannot save you”, said she stuttering.

When she brought my Guru’s name on her tongue in a detestable manner, I got a bit upset but understood that she was a bit frustrated.

“Okay tell me one thing. Are you a spiritual being or a physical being? Are you this body or someone living in this body?”

“Well, we are body, soul and spirit. Actually, I am a spiritual being but I am also body”, she said while trying to figure out what to say.

“Make up your mind ma'am, whether you are a body or someone living in the body”, I told her.

“Well, I don’t know if I am body or soul or spirit. Perhaps I am all three”.

“Just as your body is wearing your clothes but your body is different from your clothes, same way you are wearing this body to be in this world but you are not your body. The fact that you say “My body”, proves that you are separate from you body. Just like your body changes clothes, you change your bodies. Bible talks about hell and heaven. Well, who suffers hell and who enjoys the bliss of heaven if your body is getting decomposed here in this world? This alone proves that you are not your body but an entity living in this body”

A long silence ensued my discourse. She was somewhat dumbfounded.

“I guess you are right. I am an entity living in this body as my entity but I don’t understand why I need my body to be here in this world”, she asked inquisitively.

“In order to stay and function in this enchanted world made of 5 basic elements, a body of 5 elements is required. Our astral body or our spiritual body cannot function in this world and same holds true vice-versa”.

“What vice-versa”, she asked.

“Vice-versa, meaning; our physical body cannot go to the next world because next world is out of this enchanted world made of 5 basic elements. So in the next world we carry our real body and stay in our real-self.”

“I see”, she said.

“Now think about it ma’am; how can blood of Jesus i.e. a physical thing of 5 basic elements clean your spiritual self or soul?”

She stayed quiet for quite bit. In the end she said, “I will have to think about this more deeply. I have never looked at spirituality from the angles you have pointed out today. I regularly go this way and I am sure to bump into you sometime soon. We will continue our discussion. At this time I don't know what to say. Thanks for your time and see you again.”

“See you and bye”.

I resumed my paath from the ashtpadi I had left before debating with her and reached home, thanking Vaheguru for being with me.

Daas,
Kulbir Singh

PS: Isaayee means one who believes in Isa Maseeh i.e. Jesus Christ. Moosaayee is one who believes in Moses i.e a Jew.

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